Wine, Stories, & The Family Business with Anthony Giglio

Anthony Giglio [00:00:03]:
But I know that the wine world is a terrifying place for most people who think there's so that The essence of everything I do, Mike, is The. People think there's a right answer when it comes to wine and wine etiquette. And my joke right off the bat is there is no right answer, there's only one wrong answer, and that is white Zinfandel. And Mike

Mike Ganino [00:00:28]:
That's my guest, Anthony Giglio, on today's episode of the The Drop Moment. You know, when we were putting this together in the midst of the coronavirus, pandemic that's that's going on everywhere, I thought, is it the right time to put out a podcast? Should I say something? What do I say? Who's the right guest to, to help us, you know, feel good to entertain us and also add some humanity to it? And I also realize sometimes that these podcasts are like weird little messages to the future. We have no idea right now how things are going to turn out, what's going to happen. I think a lot of the people that I know and myself are hopeful that things will get back to normal quickly, but we don't know. And we don't know what that will look Mike, how long it'll last. So it's an interesting thing to be recording content while this goes on. It's an interesting thing to think, when someone listens to this podcast because this part won't get edited out in the future, they'll know that this episode was released in March of 2020. They'll know how things turned out with the coronavirus.

Mike Ganino [00:01:37]:
And so it'll be Mike an interesting little snapshot. But I also had that moment of, should I be releasing podcast episodes right now? And I thought, well, the world certainly doesn't need my opinion on what's going on with our health and safety right now. There are doctors and lots of smart people that you should be listening to about that. It also seems like there's a whole bunch of how to content out there about how to how to market your business, and how to handle your kids and all of that. And I thought, you know what I can contribute? I can contribute these conversations that I've had with people over the last couple of months for the The drop moment. Conversations like the one today with Anthony Giglio. So hopefully wherever you are, you are safe and happy practicing the best practices in social distancing. And I just wanted to send this little reminder that we're still here.

Mike Ganino [00:02:28]:
We're still feeling things. And, sometimes amidst the chaos and the news and all of the information we need to take in, it's helpful to sometimes take a break and hear something that's full of life and love and humanity and a little bit of laughter. And that's this episode with Anthony Giglio. I met Anthony a couple of years ago, actually, probably, like, 5 years ago through our mutual friends at Brooks Winery. So while this isn't a wine and wisdom episode where I pair with wine, I say why not order up or grab a bottle of Brooks wine if you can. Otherwise, grab some Ganino or bourbon or just grab whatever you've got and drink it. But if you have a chance, grab some Brooks wine. They're up in, in Oregon.

Mike Ganino [00:03:09]:
And, and they make great Pinot and great Riesling. I'm a huge fan and and we love them over there. We've been members and friends for years. And that's why I met Anthony. He was there to host a big event for all their wine club members. And he was the emcee of the event and the the host up on stage with the winemaker. And I thought, woah. And I got to do a winery tour and all those cool things you get to do when you're, like, living VIP life and can hang out with Anthony Giglio.

Mike Ganino [00:03:34]:
And he was so entertaining. He's he's known as being one of the most entertaining wine and spirits authorities on the planet. And, and I could tell you after witnessing him in person, it is true. He is indeed one of the most entertaining wine and spirits authorities on the The, and certainly The most entertaining one on this podcast. See, I am a wine geek and former sommelier as well, but Anthony, he beats me. He's really, really freaking funny. He is a writer, an educator, a business person, and ultimately a storyteller, which is why I wanted to bring him here for the show. He has written for Food and Wine.

Mike Ganino [00:04:11]:
He is the wine director of the Uber Swanky Centurion Lounge, which are the super fancy Mike lounges in a bunch of airports. He heads up the wine program there. He's The writer of 11 books and has been featured in Esquire Magazine, Details, The The Report, The New York Times. He's been on The Today Show and Food Network, and he's a 2 time moth speaker. The moth are these really great storytelling events, and he's done it twice. And his talk, which I've linked in the show notes here, is called Listen Here, Fancy Pants. That's one of the moths that he did. And it's all about the white collar son making peace with his blue collar father.

Mike Ganino [00:04:48]:
And we actually get into that at the end of this episode, and, if you have some tissues around or maybe not, maybe just use your, like, shirt or something because tissues are in short order. You're gonna need them for how this episode ends. Anthony opens up and and shares a little bit about the process of creating that moth and delivering it. And, it's it's moving. I was crying listening to it and talking to him even though I've heard the story a few times. So this episode is all about storytelling, business, entertainment, and bringing humanity and more of yourself to the work you do. If you wanna check out more about Anthony Giglio, you can find him at anthonygiglio.comor@anthonygiglioonline. You can also check out his, his new, side project as well.

Mike Ganino [00:05:36]:
You can find that on Instagram at Mike gig super salt. It's his new, it's his new creation. It's awesome. It's this, salt. So you can go check them out. But Anthony gilio.com and at Anthony gilio, that's where you wanna go. Let's dive into this episode with my friend, the very entertaining and, just wanna just a great guy. Get in here.

Mike Ganino [00:05:59]:
Let's go listen to this.

Mike Drop Moment Brand Voice [00:06:01]:
So you have a story to tell, and you wonder how to own the stage and give that killer speech that will The masses. You don't just Ganino speak to The. You want to transform your audience. Welcome to the Mike drop moment. Bold conversations about public speaking, storytelling, and business that give you real world valuable takeaways. So you can craft a speech, a story, a business, and a life that the world can't stop talking about. It's time to find your mic drop moment. Here is your host, Mike The.

Mike Ganino [00:06:37]:
So one of the things I was one of the things I was really curious about, you and I met years ago at, at a mutual friend's wine event from Brooks Brooks Mike. Janie had you out to teach. There was, like, I don't know, 400 people in this I think it was, like, a high school or, like, a college auditorium. And there's 400 people. We're drinking, like, 15 wines. You're there interviewing the winemaker who is a lovely guy, but probably not somebody who wants to be in front 3 or 400 people drinking wine. And I remember being you know, we had spent the day walking around the the vineyard together, hanging out, and and I remember in that moment seeing you, like, transform into this like, one of the most engaging people in front of 300 people I've ever Method. And it was you know, so many people have this storytelling voice.

Mike Ganino [00:07:22]:
They they get in front of people, and they turn into, like, the presenter. And you were just so natural up there.

Anthony Giglio [00:07:29]:
Wow. Well, thank you. I I've been working at it for years. And and yeah. I I I I feel good in front of a big crowd. I feel I, but I think I'm a good reader of crowds and that crowd of course is, you know, coming for a presentation. So like, I kind of feel like they're already in the right mindset. I do have, business crowds Mike where it's, you know, a bunch of people who've been in conferences all day and this is happy hour and I'm wrangling cats and it's, it's a totally different experience.

Anthony Giglio [00:08:04]:
So Mike, I always say that there's a huge difference between people paying to come to hear me speak and me being paid to go talk to people who may not wanna hear me speak. There's a and there's there's probably a a hue I would bet you'd you'd sense a huge energy shift in me in those two different situations. So you caught me on a great day with a with a adoring crowd. And when I have that, when I have, and this may sound strange to say, when I have control of the, of, of the room and the crowd, I, I, I really do, I do really well. I think that's what I'm at my Mike. And, and, and I, I feed off that energy when people are really into it and positive and they want to be there and they want to hear me. They paid to come see me. That's all the difference.

Anthony Giglio [00:08:47]:
Which is interesting because we talk about The you and I both do, you know, speaking for all different sorts of people. Some who pay us to come speak and some who pay to come hear us speak. Right? And then we hopefully get paid for that too. But, and it's a different, it's different energy. So I, I often feel like, I have to, I have to off I have to work to seduce a crowd sometimes and, and, and, and I'm good at it. I've learned how to, to, to, to work a crowd. And then there's other times when it's like the one you and I met at where it was just easy. And I was, I was at, like, full power, you know, the tank was full and and I was feeling, you know, the energy from everyone that they were into it, and and I just soar when that happens.

Anthony Giglio [00:09:31]:
Other times it might take a good 10, 15 minutes to get them to, you know, to fall in love with me.

Mike Ganino [00:09:36]:
And what is your what is your what are the rules of seduction? What are the how do you walk up there and say, okay. I gotta I'm gonna turn this crowd on.

Anthony Giglio [00:09:45]:
I would say self deprecation has been one of my my secret sauces for for years. I figured out that a lot of people hear, oh, he's a sommelier. They can't, you know, they can't pronounce it, they choose not to pronounce it or they, they hate it. And that instantly makes me a snob. Oh, he's a wine expert. Oh, fan

Mike Ganino [00:10:04]:
Well, they're they're concerned that you're gonna, like, talk about, like, the smell of a goose lily on a wet cat's bottom Exactly. And try to get them to buy a wine that's, like, 5 times as expensive as

Anthony Giglio [00:10:14]:
they wanted. Exactly right. And so, like, I I often and, you know, I always like, there's some people who come to hear me a a 1000000 times or, Mike, or the clients who hire me over and over. There's the eye roll when I say this, but I usually break in right away with, my name is Anthony Gillio, and I'm from Jersey City. Anybody got a problem with that? And, like, people just gefaw because it's Mike you know, and what's really what and and and there's a there's a side a a sideline to that. You just you're just in New York, you told me. The the the reputation of Jersey City has changed drastically in the last 10 years as, you know, this other borough and a food destination. Pete Wells has made more than enough enemies as the, you know, the New York Times restaurant critic having 3 times come to Jersey City and stepped out of the boundaries of the 5 boroughs to give 3 and 2 stars to pizzerias and and one restaurant that no longer exists.

Anthony Giglio [00:11:04]:
But, you know, it's because we have this really exciting scene here. I grew up here, and it was a toilet when I was growing up, and people were just fleeing. My parents fled when I was a teenager. And so to think that, you know, I'm back here and, and it's exciting and and fun is is is interesting. But anyway, most people around the country here in Jersey City just laugh. It's the word Jersey makes people laugh. So I'm Mike, I'm a, you know, I'm Ganino I'm a kid from Jersey City, New Jersey who's got a problem with that. People left and then I go right into a story about growing up, in, you know, in in a row house with my grandparents upstairs and all of our entertaining was done in the The, which is a very ethnic northeast thing that a lot of people get and some people just know from, like, everybody loves Raymond or something.

Anthony Giglio [00:11:46]:
And it's it's that idea of, you know, this Scorsese film, Sunday Lunch, where everybody's in the basement with big hair and cigarettes and drinking and laughing and and the door just keeps opening and all you see is The feet coming up the alleyway and, the kids are at the kids' table and we're allowed to have wine The. And all these things just set up this leveling block. Like, I I'm literally bulldozing through the crowd with this and getting them to understand that I am the least pretentious guy in the planet. And I'm also the kid from the blue collar neighborhood who'd done good. Like, you know what I mean? I not not too shabby for a kid who grew up in a row house in Jersey City and, you know, ate in the basement with no light. And and that just it sorta can sway a lot of people who might be doubters to, to come my way. But I I I do say this, Mike, that I I literally could watch a crowd and I see the shoulders go down and I see the maybe The it's like that whole like lean forward thing where they're I have them and I can see I'm pulling them. I'm pulling them in and pulling them in and pulling them in.

Anthony Giglio [00:12:48]:
And then I get funny. You know, like, you know, and that's, that's, that's sort of like The, the intro I do over and over and it works. It works. If I already have the crowd, I just get right to business and we still have a fun with with tasting. But if I don't, it's this sort of like this, you know, little comedy show in the beginning to get them to understand that I am not here to take this seriously. And I always say things like, okay. So we Mike it you know, there's this whole 3 sips thing I do to make people understand that you can't just judge a wine in the The sip and you wanna try it the second time to to bat you know, to to judge balance. And then if you're still not sure, let's try it with food.

Anthony Giglio [00:13:21]:
And food could be anything from, a breadstick, a salted nuts, a potato chip. I always joke and say if we're desperate a Dorito Moment I was at an audience once where there were people from Frito Lay who were not happy about that line. So but I'm seeing it here on your show. And it's just for fun. Right? Like, just again, to get people to understand it. Like, I'm not talking about having caviar with this. I'm saying we could have potato chips. But once you add fat plus salt to the equation, everything changes and you see this thing happen.

Anthony Giglio [00:13:47]:
Right? But what I'll do that with with, with a group and then, launch right into, like, let's talk about tasting and pairing and this and that. And, and, and then I say, if you still don't like this wine after you've tasted it three times, you have every right to walk away from it. And I want you to know that I couldn't care less. And people Mike, or like, they think I'm being flippant and I'm like, no meaning, I'm not here to judge. I can't tell you what to like. If you tell me you like your steak medium rare and I like it, you know, I like it well done, you like it medium rare or whatever. I'm not even gonna judge. So so you might not like your Cabernet fully oaked and and 18%.

Anthony Giglio [00:14:22]:
So, like, got it. We can move towards something lighter. Let's go towards Pinot Noir. But the point is I'm not here to judge. I'm just here to ask you to give it a fair shake. And if you've given every single wine we taste today, 3 sips and there's 6 wines, 18 sips later, I think you will leave a better informed person and you will never taste wine the same again. I guarantee this. And at the end, people are, you know, shaking my hand like I'm the The.

Anthony Giglio [00:14:44]:
It's crazy.

Mike Ganino [00:14:45]:
Well, you I that's one of the things that was so interesting for me. I've been around you know, I was I was in the wine world for a long time. I was a a sommelier. I bought a lot of wine, and I taught wine inside of restaurants. And so that was, again, I had kind of the same thing, a captive audience, but also sometimes they were like, can I just drink it? Like, do you have to talk about it, or can we just drink the wine? And when I saw you with this crowd, I thought, oh, he is the pope of wine because, like, it's so, it's and a that's a good reference for 2 guys with the names Giulio and Ganino. A a good pope reference there. But, this this approach that you took was so refreshing. And so did it happen to you to figure out, okay.

Mike Ganino [00:15:27]:
I'm gonna do events. So you were sommelier. And then when did it come in to say, oh, wait a second. I I like talking to people. I could do something with this. How did that opportunity come up?

Anthony Giglio [00:15:37]:
So to course correct The thing is I'm a journalist first. The, yes. So so I so I went to Fordham University in Manhattan and, was a journalist journalist The an art historian and all these crazy things. I was I had all these ideas what I was gonna do and nothing really worked out, in the beginning. And I went from, from writing for lifestyle magazines Mike Travel and Leisure, to a a, real estate financial magazine called National Real Estate Investor because that's the only magazine I could get to really work. Otherwise, I was a copy boy and a pencil sharpener. And I went to this, this trade magazine where I was writing 7 columns and really learning reporting and, and deadlines and writing and production. And it was it was it was a great detour.

Anthony Giglio [00:16:21]:
It was back The, it would seem dismal and horrible, but it was what I needed. But while I was there, my editor, Dora Hatris, who was, you know, to this day, I owe her my career, she said, why aren't you writing about wine? Like, we would have coffee in our office every morning back in The this is the early nineties and, she would be smoking because you couldn't in your office back then. I never Mike. But, we'd sit in our office and drink coffee and she'd say, so, what did you do this weekend? And somehow Moment I didn't completely unconsciously, I talked about wine all the time. Like, whatever whoever I was dating, we had this and we had this and we had this. And she said, why are you writing about wine? And I looked at The Mike she was crazy. I said, because I'm not 70? I have no idea. Like, you know, I read decanter and, like, everyone's British and white hair.

Anthony Giglio [00:17:04]:
And and she said, well, why do you think about it? And I said, yeah. Yeah. Whatever. And literally within a few weeks, Details Ganino, which was brand new back then, came out with, Matt Dillon Crouch on the cover. I still have the the magazine in my Chloe. And it says 90 2 careers for 1992. And, the one of the careers was, I'm paraphrasing, or something like, you know, become a sommelier, meet chicks. And I'm like, I can with this.

Anthony Giglio [00:17:30]:
So I I The the number, and and whenever I tell The story, especially to young people, Mike, this is pre Internet. This is, you know, this is me calling information and then calling and getting an answering machine and then waiting patiently for someone to reply 2 days later. And the answer was, we have 2 seats The. And if you'd like to take the diploma course, it starts next Tuesday at noon. And and I, I I said noon. I'm I I work full time as an Method. And she said, well, this is for restaurant professionals, so figure it out. And I went back to Adora, and I said, okay.

Anthony Giglio [00:18:00]:
Remember the idea you had? Here's my plan. And she said, well, it could work, but the biggest obstacle is your big mouth. Because if I let you leave on Tuesdays at noon for a year, I can get fired and you can get fired. She said, so we'll make a plan and it'll be you don't go to lunch the rest of the week. You'll be at your desk so that if anybody catches us, we can say you've been making up the hours and it's true. And on Tuesdays, you leave a jacket on the chair, and I will shuffle boards for you and pretend you're out running errands for me. And dude, she did this for me for, for not like, you know, nothing but friendship and and love. Right? And I, I got my diploma and she takes the last step.

Anthony Giglio [00:18:45]:
I get my diploma and I'm at my desk and she goes, please tell me you saw this already in the New York Mike. Want ads? And I said, no. And it was, Metropolitan Area Wine Magazine seeks managing editor. And I was like, I wouldn't have read it anyway. Managing editor, it's way above my my pay grade. And she said, call it now. And I called her in front of her and it was, Bill Tishman, who was the editor, editor in chief of Mike Enthusiast. And, I went up and met him, and he's like, so here's the deal.

Anthony Giglio [00:19:14]:
The the, the ad was today, we'd call it clickbait. Right? He was like, the ad was the the ad was a bait and switch. You are managing editor, but you manage no one. It's me and you, but the title will open doors, and it'll launch your career, and you stick with me for a few years and you'll be established, and I did it. So, that that began this whole trajectory into the wine world, and one of my best friends, became, marketing director and then eventually publisher of Food and Wine Ganino. And she was the one who invited me to Aspen 1 year to, to cover my one of my mentors, Kevin Sraeli, one of the great wine educators in New York. I worked for him for 2 years at night while I was working at Mike enthusiasts during the day, at the Windows of the World Wine School, and he had called in, sick to speak in Aspen because his daughter was very ill. So I pinch hit it for him and got in front of Lenny Teague, who was in the wine editor, and Dana Moment, and and got it was, like, an audition live in front of 250 people and and got the The, and that started the the ball rolling.

Anthony Giglio [00:20:15]:
So I've I've been to 25 Food Lion Classics now. And every time that I would get up there, people would come up after Method say, can you come speak to my my clients? Can you come lead a tour and, well, you know, come to our town or can you and I just started getting in front of people more and more and more. That's I had time at Janie Brooks. Janie came to Aspen 1 year. She's like, I need you to come and do our our boot camp, and I said, happily. So that's that's what started this whole other other direction, which was actually perfect, Mike, because journalism, we had no idea that we were standing on the edge of the cliff in the in the mid nineties. I I I go back to Fordham every now and then and speak, in my journalism class. My professor's still there because she was in her twenties when I was in in her classes.

Anthony Giglio [00:20:55]:
And I say to them, like, you kids have no idea that, at at the time, I was making 2.50 a word $2.50 a word to write for magazines like, you know, Esquire and Details and GQ. And, the Internet is slowly starting up in the late nineties and, the bottom fell out and, you know, to this day, I'm still getting people say, would you write for, you know, 80¢ a word, 60¢ a word? And I say, no. Thank you, because it's gone. Mike I and even if I could get The 2.50 I was making in 1996, what's your rent today from 1996? Like Right. What's your mortgage in 1996 versus now? So we're supposed to be happy with The. And I I am grateful when I still get paid $2 or 2.50 from, like, departures, but, very few people are doing it. And the cost of living has changed since The, so I don't write as much as I used to. I I pick and choose.

Anthony Giglio [00:21:43]:
I would still write for The New Yorker if anyone's listening for free. But otherwise, you know, it it's gotta be something that I'm really passionate about to write about. It all all to say, to answer your question 15 minutes later, it all led to, being seen as an expert and then being hired to speak about it. And that's how I it it all went in that direction.

Mike Ganino [00:22:04]:
Well, it's it and it's an interesting thing because there's also that I think with with folks like you and the very few people who can present wine and co present. Because, I mean, a lot of times you're with a winemaker, you're with the the producer, and your job is to make them look good as well. So you're kind

Anthony Giglio [00:22:22]:
of Right.

Mike Ganino [00:22:22]:
Speaking and you're emceeing at the same Mike. And it's a hard gig, and you do it you do it really well. So I I get why your, people are saying, please come to my town. Please come and speak.

Anthony Giglio [00:22:32]:
Well, thank you. Yeah. I I I I would say that I've gotten enough practice to have it down. A good friend of mine, who's sort of like a life coach. Her name is Jody DiVita. She, she's been to enough dinner parties in my house The going back for a decade or more where anytime, I would say, oh, I'm going in front of this big crowd and, you know, this could be a challenge. You would just say, if you can, if you could practice visualization, you're sitting at the head of your table, holding court. That's exactly what it is over and over again.

Anthony Giglio [00:23:06]:
If you could think that way, anytime you're even feeling in the middle of it, like you're losing the people, like, just remember how you bang the glass and you tell a story and everyone is suddenly staring back at you again and they're quiet. And it it it works. It really, really works where I just tap the glass, say, okay, let's you know, Mike, it's like order in the court. But, yeah, I've I've I've picked up a lot of tricks. I also throw out a Catholic school joke, which you'll probably get when, when I I say, I'm sorry. Are there any questions? And then, like, people stop talking and look at me for a second, like, and I and I'm like, I don't really mean, are there any questions? That's actually passive aggressive Catholic none for why is anyone speaking while I'm speaking? And then like people laugh and it's sort of like, it's a funny way to pull them back in, but Mike, I don't, I Mike, I I'll say that I, and I actually have friends who are speakers and I'll go to their events and I afterwards, they're like, and if they ask, what did you think? I'll be honest. If they don't ask, I'll never offer. I don't want to offend anybody, but I'll say you allow people to speak and that is the worst thing.

Anthony Giglio [00:24:01]:
You do not let anybody talk your events because it just, you lose control. People it's it's disrespectful and they shouldn't be on their phones. They shouldn't be Mike, you call them out. Call them out in a fun way, but call people out. Like, you don't let it happen because it just sets a completely different feel. If you could hear murmuring in the in the back, it usually starts. People who wanna hear, of course, are upfront. But as soon as that starts, you've lost the crowd and you've like, I feel like you've lost respect and that's maybe that's a very Italian thing to say, right? You lost respect.

Anthony Giglio [00:24:29]:
But I I do feel like, you know, you you need to, you you know, and and it also means that you're not engaging them. Like, clearly, you you're not doing your job. And it's not just about, you know, calling out and being a barker. It's also Mike, clearly, you you're not holding them. You gotta hold them better, man. And that's so Mike don't know. I take that for granted that I don't have to do it a lot anymore, but I've gotten good at wrangling people. And, and, and, and, you know, and respectfully, Mike, I want you to listen to me because I'm interesting, not because you have to.

Anthony Giglio [00:24:54]:
That's that's ultimately the goal. Right? Like, I hope you don't feel like you have to be here because your boss invited you. And if you and if you are here because your boss invited you, I hope by the end of the night that you're giving me your card saying, I hope we could stay in touch and, I'd love to give you some business because that's that's what we all want. Right? But, and and I have to say it happens it happens a lot more than, I expect. I'm I I I always go in thinking, who knows what's gonna happen here? And then I'll you know, the the goal is to leave pleasant surprise, and and I've I've gotten pretty good at surprising myself, I guess.

Mike Ganino [00:25:25]:
Well and there's that idea too of when people are are talking, it's not so much even it's also that other people wanna listen. So, like Right. If you're over there, you know, talking about whatever, the guy next to you, he might wanna listen. And so part of our job on stage is to, control the room for those people as well.

Anthony Giglio [00:25:42]:
Right. Right. You know, this is not this is a tangent. It doesn't go to speaking, but I'm gonna say it anyway. I host a ton of wine dinners. You know? I've I I all the Mike. I have one tomorrow night, here in Jersey City. And, I am often The, the, the timekeeper with the host who's very nervous about starting if everyone's not there.

Anthony Giglio [00:26:03]:
And I say, listen, I'm not defending anyone who came 10 minutes early, but people who came on time and they've been standing around making small talk for more than 30 minutes, we need to sit down and it's not fair to the people who for for legitimate reasons of traffic or accidents or whatever, or because they just come in when they feel like coming in, not our problem. We will make them feel completely welcome when they get here, but we need to sit down and and put a glass in hand and get the ball going because it's not fair. Like you just said, so there's the whole fairness thing. Mike, so people talking is the same thing. It's not fair that you're disrupting, you know, this this this thing that people are The otherwise in really interested in.

Mike Ganino [00:26:42]:
Yeah. And it actually is a The there is a really clear Drop to speaking or or workshopping. Because, like, if you're leading a workshop, you're often cohosting. You know, I was in New York this week, leading a workshop with some bankers, and I'm cohosting it with their training department. You know, they kick it off. And so we had that same thing just happen where it's like, hey. We're 10 minutes late. I know 3 people aren't here, but these other 15 people are here.

Mike Ganino [00:27:05]:
So we should get going for them. And the other ones, they'll catch up when they catch up.

Anthony Giglio [00:27:08]:
And then

Mike Ganino [00:27:09]:
so it is a really there's a cop to to the speaking world there. So you were you're talking about being a a journalist. Do you think that that that's shaped your approach to researching and thinking about an event and getting ready for it? Have you brought some of that into how you approach getting, you know, getting prepped for a big event?

Anthony Giglio [00:27:28]:
A 100%. Yeah. I I I I would say that, as a journalist and, and and and and, you know, a professionally trained journalist, like, I wouldn't I love when I went, you know, when I was in 49, I I just told a story the other day to, to some kids that I was, teaching On, visit, you know, like workshop day. This is freshman year. So this is 1981. No. Sorry. 85.

Anthony Giglio [00:27:56]:
Our 3 guest speakers were Dan Rather, Peter Jennings, and, who am I forgetting? And, Tom Brokaw. All three networks sent you know, we requested The come to the Lincoln Center, and they all came in and there's Mike, you know, 80 of us in the auditorium. And they're just sitting at a, you know, at a table in front of us talking Mike I mean, Mike one of my greatest teachers was Joseph Dunbo, who was, who was, Method Almarrow's assistant back in the fifties. Like, you know, and this guy is still teaching journalism today. All to say that I'm terrified of ever being called out for not being, accurate and prepared. Right? So I'm a huge researcher. I'm a, I'm actually an obsessive to, to my own detriment researcher who always has notes prepared on, I I I have this format that is, 8 half by 11 sheets DiVita. I set up 2 columns so that I could hold it in the palm of my hand long like a long it's a regular sheet of paper, but it's in half.

Anthony Giglio [00:28:55]:
Right? So it's not so intrusive Mike a big paper, and plus The lines are shorter to read. So they're bulleted so that I can read short, short, short, short, short things as I'm speaking, if I need it. I'll just always be able to have that glance and keep I'll even keep it on the table so you don't see it. But if I am standing when I'm walking around and talking, I have that ready and I keep them folded in half if I want The, you know, make it even smaller. But it's The in the palm of the hand. I love that. But, the other half of it is, as a speaker, who wants to be taken seriously, part of journalism class was you need to get rid of your accent. So if I was speaking in my my hometown accent in Jersey City, which sounds just like Brooklyn, there's no letter r.

Anthony Giglio [00:29:33]:
So it's car, mother, father, water, coffee. You're like and and I was, you know, studying I had to study all the branches of of of journalism. It was when we had to do a year of broadcast and they were with and I was in in school with kids from Bensonhurst and The Bronx, and and we all had to go to, like, elocution classes to to exercise our terrible accents. But, at the same time, I was also, then getting into, to reading like The New Yorker daily. Like, that was one of the exercises was to see how some of the greatest writers in the country write. And, you know, so it's it's and this is the days before, podcasting where you would hear the author speaking. So you you don't know what voice was in your head, but you I would start to, you know, hear myself and my better accent reading and and, building a really beautiful vocabulary. I I would say that if, you know, if if I were to brag about anything and I'm I'm very reticent to do that because I'm I'm very superstitious, but I would say I have a pretty spectacular vocabulary and, and I've learned to speak better and better and better in in a cadence that's, clear and compelling and interesting.

Anthony Giglio [00:30:42]:
And, but I pride myself deeply on speaking beautifully. And I, I say that beautifully because, because I studied, Italian for 9 years, I, I learned that not knowing how to break down English, it's just natural. Right? But by learning a second language, how you could say something direct or something politer or even even better. Or if you're with the you know, if you're meeting the priest or the the bond senior or the pope, like, layers and layers and layers that we have in Catholic school. The nuns would teach us this. But, like, how to speak, eloquently. Right? There's the word, eloquently. Mike, so sure I could say, oh, I'm waiting for the bus or it's like, you know, that's a terrible example.

Anthony Giglio [00:31:26]:
I should have a better sentence ready for you and I'm not. But how to just sit here to to take it up a level and to say something, you know, in a beautiful turn of phrase. Right? You know, to say and and people say, I like that. I love that. And I so ironically, I speak Italian beautifully. Right? So meaning I've been told this over and over again because, instead of just saying everything in the in the present, I'm using plutperfects, subjunctives and things like that where people go, oh my god. Like not even normal newscasters in Italy speak that way anymore. But I, you know, I I I'm speaking like this for 30 years.

Anthony Giglio [00:31:59]:
So I I use the same in English. Like, and when I write, I say like, I, you know, dangling prepositions drive me insane, but it's completely, it's completely accepted now. You know, like, Jim Nelson, he was editor of GQ. We had dinner once and he would call out on social media, all of the dangling prepositions he would find. And I say it's and I said to my kids, it's so easy to just do this flip. Write the sentence the way you speak. If you say, like, what is that for? Or no or or or god. What's what's an example like? It's it's what we were waiting for.

Anthony Giglio [00:32:35]:
Right? It's what we're waiting for. And I'm like, or it's that for which you were waiting. Like, it doesn't take a lot of effort to do that. That's not a that's not an everyday.

Mike Ganino [00:32:45]:
I love it The because it it does like, it's very, we'll talk about the moth later, but, you had, your moth was was, listen here, fancy pants. And that is a very fancy pants sentence. I love it.

Anthony Giglio [00:32:57]:
100%. Yeah. You're wow. That that's that's right. Yeah. You're right. And, yeah, I've been called out my whole life like that for being, you know but maybe it's it's aspirational from growing up in the basement in Jersey City with a truck driver dad and, You

Mike Ganino [00:33:09]:
had a lot to make up for it.

Anthony Giglio [00:33:10]:
So, like, I I I guess I've been digging out my whole life trying to, you know, just trying to, you know, be, you know, try and be the next generation and represent the next generation better. Right?

Mike Ganino [00:33:19]:
Well, and it's so fun because you also your approach to teaching wine is also flipped a little bit, whereas everyone else can be very, they they use, big powerful words all the time and and make it this access only place. You actually do the opposite when you're teaching wine where you're very approachable and telling jokes and being fun.

Anthony Giglio [00:33:40]:
Yeah. You're right. You're completely right. Because that's because that's what I know works. Like, I people want why does so in in everyday life, yeah, I'm aspiring to be polished. Right? But I know that the wine world is a terrifying place for most people who think there's so that the essence of everything I do, Mike, is The. People think there's a right answer when it comes to wine and wine etiquette. And my joke right off the bat is there is no right answer.

Anthony Giglio [00:34:10]:
There's only one wrong answer, and that is white Zinfandel. And Mike, but I'm like so Mike but like, I said, if you're like, you think that there's a right answer, like, oh, if I'm having steak, I have to have this. If I'm having fish, I have to have this. And I'm like, alright. I'm opening the veil, everyone. And it might put me out of business, but there is no right answer. I don't care what you want with what. If it works for you, it's the same as me hating well done steak.

Anthony Giglio [00:34:33]:
I can't even imagine people wanna eat a steak well done, but I know that more than probably half the country eat steak well done. Like, fine for you. I'm you know, we we could all still sit down together. I just hope that I could cook mine my way and you could have yours your way. And the good news is my way could be finished your way. Yours can't be undone to my way, but I'm gonna be nice about it. Yeah. So to say that, there is no right answer.

Anthony Giglio [00:34:55]:
It's it's it's taste is subjective in everything, including Mike. But wine is just so overwhelming because of having to, you know, look at a label and say, what am I looking at? And to say, okay, let's start with a grape. Let's start with a place. Let's start with this. And what does that mean? And let's talk about the hierarchy of grapes. And what does that mean? And and so here's the lightest and here's medium, here's full. And then what are other factors to consider? And, you know, take people to The. And it's all in plain language.

Anthony Giglio [00:35:21]:
So I I figured out a long time ago that you will lose them if you say, like, we're looking for medium plus, pH and, you know, little you know, a little bit of old telesivity, but not too Mike. You know, I, I would say this when I say I became a sommelier and threw away 90% of what I learned because I realized early on that if I wanted to make a career as a wine writer, not a floor sommelier, Nobody in the world gives a crap about the 5 subsoils of the Rheingau in Germany, except master sommeliers in, you know, in a in a circle. Like, that's right?

Mike Ganino [00:35:56]:
Well and it's it's so true. When I was at when I was at Lettuce Entertainment in Chicago in teaching wine, even the servers, what they were begging for was, can you give me an actual story I can use? Because, again, going to the table, we we we had a a Italian restaurant, and there was, like, a bar for Chianti. Like, I'm gonna pay $40 in the Chicago suburbs for Chianti. That's what I'm gonna pay. And so we realized no matter what we put on the list for Chianti, they weren't gonna pay more because they had a a price threshold because they knew the grape. They knew the wine. So they were like, well, I know how much this should cost. And sometimes the the trick in a restaurant is you put stuff on there, nobody knows how much it should cost, and then you could do whatever.

Mike Ganino [00:36:32]:
So we were like, okay. Could we make a could we make a move with with, Valpolicella? So can we teach this somehow? So we did the whole three thing. We did Valpo, Ripasso, Amarone. We taught the lesson, and we were able to increase sales, not because they could talk about the the grapes and the blend of the 3 grapes, but because we made this whole story up of, like, Goldilocks and how Ripasso was, like, the the perfect one because we charged $40 for the Valpo. We charged a 120 for the Amarone, and the Repasso was was, like, $65. So now we're making more than the Chianti.

Anthony Giglio [00:37:05]:
It's just It's all right.

Mike Ganino [00:37:07]:
It's just right. All the servers wanted was a story. They didn't care about the leads and how they just wanted a story. And so I think one of The it's interesting when you're you were saying this. One of the connections is this is exactly like speaking. Because sometimes we get in front of our audiences and say you're talking about HR or design or leadership or marketing, and we don't connect with them because we wanna be seen as an expert. And I think it's the same thing that can happen with wine people. You get up there and you wanna talk about currants, and it's like, I've never met a person who's actually eaten a currant Right.

Mike Ganino [00:37:36]:
In their life.

Anthony Giglio [00:37:37]:
Gooseberries. Yes. I think.

Mike Ganino [00:37:39]:
I don't even know. Some of these things sound like something for Harry Potter. Like, there's a wet gooseberry on The cat's nipple. I don't

Anthony Giglio [00:37:45]:
I don't

Mike Ganino [00:37:45]:
know what that is.

Anthony Giglio [00:37:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. What what's that Instagram, called? Something garden hose?

Mike Ganino [00:37:52]:
Oh, yeah. There's that one

Anthony Giglio [00:37:53]:
I wanted The grab. The Sam films or something where it's Mike all the pretentious adjectives you could possibly use for, for for for wine descriptions. Yeah. So that that's, I guess yeah. So that's that's that's how I got there, Mike. That's how I got there.

Mike Ganino [00:38:07]:
I love that. What is your do you have so you're Mike there's a joke in Hollywood about Kelly Clarkson that she has, like, 700 jobs because she's on The The, and she's got a book, and she's doing her talk show, and now she's doing a cruise. I got an email from her email list. She's doing a cruise next year, the Kelly Clarkson cruise.

Anthony Giglio [00:38:23]:
Oh my god.

Mike Ganino [00:38:23]:
You're a little bit like Kelly Clarkson to me. You have, like, 9,000 jobs. I do.

Anthony Giglio [00:38:27]:
I do.

Mike Ganino [00:38:27]:
But it seems like it's just all stuff you're, like, super into. This is a cool opportunity. Let me run with it.

Anthony Giglio [00:38:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. So so some of the hats, contributed to food and wine forever and and by by design, all it's now called the luxury group. So it's travel leader food and wine departures, and and The, the the, the Centurion has a black book, a private magazine that you can only get if you have a black card. But I write for all those magazines. They actually do still pay pretty well. And because of the connection between food and those 3 magazines, let's say, or those 4 magazines and American Express, which used to own all those. And then after the banking crisis, the rules changed that American Express had to either be a bank or publishing house.

Anthony Giglio [00:39:12]:
They couldn't be both. So they sold to Time Inc. And then that turned into a, you know, a complete disaster. But anyway, they sold to Meredith. And, as a result, I still hold on to a lot of stuff for American Express. So I am the wine director for American Express, Centurion Lounges all around the country, and now we're just going global. So we have And

Mike Ganino [00:39:33]:
and if people don't know what that is, it's like the very fancy lounge you could go to, with certain like, not all Amex people get to go there. It's only Mike

Anthony Giglio [00:39:40]:
Platinum or higher is free. So you need an Amex card to walk in. You couldn't even be my guest without an Amex card. You need even the lowest green card or whatever. You can you otherwise, you're not allowed in. That's a rule. So it's Amex platinum or higher is free. But you could bring in, you could bring, I think, up to 3 guests.

Anthony Giglio [00:39:54]:
The rules keep changing because they become so popular that they're they're actually they're insane. Like like SFO, which is one of my favorites. We're opening LAX very soon. But SFO, I have a beautiful wine wall. Like, I'm not allowed to have The anywhere else, but I fought really hard to say, like, we have to go beyond the normal wine service here because we're in the gateway to the wine country, and this is early on when there was so many way to me to play with as it, you know, they everything changes. But I have a gorgeous wine wall there. And so you can you can get in and it's gotten so crazy busy that now they've, I think it's down to 2 guests only. And you're not allowed in less than 3 hours from your flight and you can't pop in on the way back, which I always do.

Anthony Giglio [00:40:35]:
Like, I would always just pop in and grab a coffee, because everything is free. So unlike Mike like unlike, I I remember United used to have, a lot of, you know, free stuff, but then there was the premium wines. Like, you know, the regular wine was Sauvignon Blanc, but if you wanna upgrade to Chardonnay, you could pay $12 a glass. Everything in the lounges is free. It's made all these other lounges change the game because this is, like, year 9 now of the program. So that's The act. Also through American Express, but up Mike through free wine, I'm the online sommelier, which is a leads through hilarious stories for years. It's almost, I think, 15 years where anyone with a platinum card, who opts into the food and wine newsletter, and it's somehow a a thing that you could, I don't even I I I guess you get you you must get, promo newsletters from from Platinum where it says, oh, food love food and Mike, opt in to the food and wine newsletter.

Anthony Giglio [00:41:24]:
And then from there, you opt in to me. And the fine print is Anthony and Giulio is your online sommelier, your personal sommelier. Send him an email to this address that filters to my email, and he'll answer you within 48 hours, but nobody reads the 48 hours. They all think I'm standing here waiting Mike they're texting me. And I get the craziest craziest, messages all the time. And, like, the the my the ones that pull out of my pocket out of tasting would be, like, dear Anthony, oh my god. The steaks are on the grill and all we have is Chardonnay. Now what? I mean, that really happened.

Anthony Giglio [00:41:56]:
That happened probably in 5 different ways, the same sort of email. And I'm like, well and I The, the one time I caught it while the steaks were still on the grill, which is pretty funny. I'm like, well, you have two choices. You're gonna have steak with water or steak with Chardonnay. I think you'll find the Chardonnay tastes better than the water. And then I take it to the The, which is if we wanna take, you know, to figure out how to make this right in your head, when you go get steak frites at any great respectable steak house, it comes out with the maitre the maitre yeah, maitre d'abur with, like, the medallion of herb butter glistening on top of the steak. There's butter with steak. There's butter in the glass.

Anthony Giglio [00:42:32]:
It's all gonna be good. You know, Mike, it's all gonna work out. The greatest one, the single greatest one I ever got was, dude in men's room with wine list, date waiting. And then he sent The picture and I'm like, dear god, please let it just be the wine list and that's all it was. But he said the wine list, but I didn't see it till the next day. And I wrote I I looked at The next morning like, Mike, sorry. Dude, I'm so sorry. I hope you didn't wake up alone.

Anthony Giglio [00:43:00]:
And he wrote he wrote I made the best of it. Thank you. But, I get all these crazy crazy emails like that. The all lead to storytelling by the way. So I I talked I said to people Mike, people think there's a right answer and there is no right answer here. And I go and that guy, by the way, he should have said to The somebody, and this is nonetheless, they get to be Mike, like, talk to The people. These sommeliers are dying for your attention. They are ignored because you think that they're going to make you feel stupid.

Anthony Giglio [00:43:22]:
When in reality, if you say the following three things, The Mike, I typically drink The. We're about to eat this. I like to spend this. They're not gonna think you're cheap because Mike I feel like, oh, I don't wanna say the number out loud. I'm like, well, there's that. There's the trick we teach people as they read a wine list. If you're entertaining, business guests, The Moment, let's say, you could just open the to any page and you tip the book up and it's you and the the wine director having a conversation and you just say, I'm thinking of something like The. And you point to 60 or 70 or 90 or whatever.

Anthony Giglio [00:43:54]:
And you said something like this. We know exactly what you're saying. And we would say, Mike. I'll make a few suggestions. Let me show you blah blah blah. And we start taking you through the book. We know that's your ceiling. But if you're with friends just like, hey, $60, we're gonna get 3 bottles.

Anthony Giglio [00:44:08]:
We don't care where they're from. 1 should be white, 2 red. Let's have some fun. People look at me like I'm kinda like, you could say that. And believe it's not, the more you engage the the the wine director, unless they really are tools out of central casting, Mike, unless they're normal good people, They will love you for raising the bar, raising the challenge, and you get some fun out of it. And and and I was just out to dinner with a client last week who's become a buddy. And I said to him, what do you wanna order? And he goes, he's let me handle this. And, like, which was really funny because he, you know, he knows why, but no Mike, but he like, I I never had it if I do that.

Anthony Giglio [00:44:43]:
He said and he says the the the wine director goes over. We were at Men at a Tavern, and he says, so so I'm gonna tell you a few tips for one of my friends here who would tell me we're having, we're having carpaccio, we're having crudo, we're gonna share a, you know, a t bone and, and fries. And we're gonna have cocktails first, but then one big red. It's Christmas, so we're gonna spend 300 and not a penny more. And I'm hoping you could suggest something that's not on the wine list. What do you got? And the guy went, holy shit. And he went downstairs and came back with a few choices that weren't on the list. And that's I would say to people like, it never hurts to say, I would love to try something that's, you know, that maybe you're almost out of or something that they just, because there's stuff that's they can't put on the list anymore because there's only 3 left or 2 left or maybe a salesman just dropped something off.

Anthony Giglio [00:45:37]:
People love when I say The, and it's true. When, I was day I I when we first had kids and we would barely ever get out of the house, I would say, okay. It's date night, Monday night or Tuesday night. I would say The way I have exactly 90 minutes to get out of here. It's date night. We're gonna do a lot of talking. We don't need any interruptions after this. The bottle, $40 max.

Anthony Giglio [00:45:57]:
It's only Tuesday, and I don't care that we're at Danielle or wherever we are. $40. What do you got? And the look would be like, holy cow. Alright. And they'd come back, and they always come back with 3 suggestions. And sometimes it is, hey. This is this is I don't even know we're gonna price this out yet, but I'm gonna give it to you because I like I like your approach. And I I by the way, I I preface that by saying, people don't know who I am.

Anthony Giglio [00:46:17]:
I don't throw it out The. Like, hello. I'm Anthony from Food and Wine, and I'm about to order wine, and I'm I'm testing you. I just say, like, hey, man. Let's talk really fast. And I'm a fast speaker as you could hear when I'm not up in front of the stage. So those kind of things resonate with people and it works, all to say that. So that's, the what else I gotta tell you? I was gonna tell you, Budewijn, contributing The American Express Mike director, and, Platinum Card Online Sommelier are the 3 big hats.

Anthony Giglio [00:46:46]:
And then I I just have a my own business that I wear. I'm just doing speaking gigs and wine dinners, and, I lead tours of Sicily every summer. We'll leave 2 next year. I I started a side gig called SuperSalt, which is this passion project of mine because I'm a cook Mike than most people would imagine, and I'm the cook at my house, and I've been playing with this idea of of flavored salts and compound salts for for literally 10 years. And I came up with this, this profile that I love that speaks to my, you know, so The deep southern Italian garlic centric roots where a lot of season seasoning salts have a lot of onion and a lot of sage. Mine is a lot of garlic, and it's delicious. And, I I tested the name with a friend for a while, and then we we landed on, feel like The is a great side hustle for you. And I'm like, I'm gonna play with my last name, Giulio, which is Giglio to a lot of Americans, and say it's in my side gig.

Anthony Giglio [00:47:41]:
And I'm calling it super salt because it just makes everything taste better. Everything. Everything from, like, eggs in the morning to vinaigrette The slathering on roast to finishing anything. My kids pop popcorn all the time because we're a microwave free house. So it's Mike, put that salt on everything. And it it really people just love it, and it turned into a thing that last summer I finally buckled down and launched, at the Fancy Food Show because a friend of mine had a booth and said, why don't you put it on my table and see what people think? And I got crazy, crazy, crazy, response even the the the buyer from Wally's was there from LA. And he was like, I could sell this for 26 a jar at Wally's. And I was like, I bet you could.

Anthony Giglio [00:48:18]:
So I I have him on my wait list as I'm figuring out production. But this

Mike Ganino [00:48:22]:
Well, And it's it's such a we were talking before we started recording, and it's such a passion project that you thought, oh, I'll throw this up on Instagram. And now you've got, like, a full blown production Yeah. That you're trying to maintain because everyone wants this.

Anthony Giglio [00:48:36]:
Yeah. It's I I wrote Mike I I put it under the Christmas tree and took a picture and I said to my daughter, what do you think? She's like, I like it. And so I wrote perfect stocking stuff for if anybody's looking for anything. And this is only last Wednesday. And, I I'm I'm I'm over 200 orders and I really I planned for maybe 60, 75, and I've I have not stopped chopping herbs and making salt until 2 in the morning for the last 4 days. I'm not Mike if you could see me, I have black circles under my eyes. I'm I'm exhausted, but it's it's a passion project. I feel nothing but, like, exhilaration about The.

Anthony Giglio [00:49:09]:
But it's, you know, proof that I'm a writer, not a a business major because this is all happening way too fast The I'm not prepared. But I'll take I'll take it.

Mike Ganino [00:49:18]:
I love it. So, so this will be our little wrap up question here, our little wrap up segment.

Anthony Giglio [00:49:23]:
I feel like I feel like I failed you, though. We didn't get to the The, and that was probably

Mike Ganino [00:49:26]:
That's what I'm gonna ask you now.

Anthony Giglio [00:49:27]:
Oh, okay.

Mike Ganino [00:49:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's these things. You know, you need, like, a couple minutes and people get interested. They go find it. So when I first met you at the Brooks event, I thought, oh, this guy's really this guy's engaging. He's fun.

Mike Ganino [00:49:40]:
I wanna learn more. So I did what everyone does, and I went in. Internet stalked you. And, of course, I found that you've written 11 books. You've you know, you're mister fancy pants with, with Amex. You're doing all these things. And then I found that you actually are, at least in your family, mister fancy pants. And I found your performance at The Method, and, and it was called Listen Here, Fancy Pants.

Mike Ganino [00:50:00]:
And I remember listening to it. And as as an Italian kid growing up in California, we didn't even have Moment. So I wasn't even, like, a real Italian because we don't have basements in San Diego, and so I was envious of of those folks. But the talk really dove into mean, you were talking about family things. You were talking about, fundamentally, I think, the relationship between fathers and sons. Yeah. How did how did the moth come up? Because this has nothing to do with wine or food or salt or any of it.

Anthony Giglio [00:50:29]:
It's a it's it's it's an incredible life changing story for Mike, and the gift that still keeps giving. The moth did the moth did a Drop chef moth at, Cooper Union. So they had Padma and, and, and Tom and Gail Simmons. Gail Simmons was my colleague at Food and Wine. You know, she's still just recently it all changed, but she was, she was on the business side with my wife. My wife's the marketing director for Food and Mike, and Gail was, one of The, you know, on on the business Mike. But there was auditions for Drop Chef before the show came on, which became a humongous success. Gail had the perfect resume.

Anthony Giglio [00:51:11]:
I mean, you know, intern at Vogue, Jeffrey Steingarten's intern, speaks French because she's from Canada, has cooked, you know, professional cooks. She went to CIA, I think, and she just had everything and she's beautiful and she's personable. And even all these years later, she hasn't gotten The ounce of pretension about her after all of her, her, her great success and fame. All to say, she does them all and they say on the way out, Meg Bowles, who's, the, one of the the The top two producers, I think. Meg says, don't forget, send us your best storytellers. And she says, oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god.

Anthony Giglio [00:51:45]:
Right now, write it down, Anthony Giulio. And then she forwarded my info to them and she said, you you have to talk to him. So I get a, an email from Meg Bole saying like, we'd like to set up a phone call. So I get on the phone with her and I'm very, I mean, I think I'm pretty much speaking the way I speak. I'm speaking to you right now, but I was trying to impress her by telling these really funny stories. Not realizing it was totally subliminal that she, she called it out. That all three stories, she stops me. She says, Anthony, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna put the pause button here and say the following.

Anthony Giglio [00:52:20]:
Clearly, you're a great storyteller. Clearly, you have comic timing. You've you've spoken before. It's obvious. Mike, you could you could, you know, you could seduce a cactus, with these with but, all three stories are Hardy har har, yuck, yuck, yuck, and the moth is in a comedy show. We find the best stories Mike you laugh, cry, laugh, you know, something like that. And then, you know, and then stand up and scream, like cheers. She says, I have, dude, this is a woman I've never met.

Anthony Giglio [00:52:51]:
She goes, I have a pop psychology approach to what I think is going on here. Your dad is in every story you've told me. She says, and if I had to take a guess just by what I've looked up on you and what I'm hearing from you, you don't have a great relationship with him, or at least you didn't growing up. If I were guessing, she was and by the way, let me preface what I'm about to tell you by the saying this. I'm gonna say The. I'm gonna hang up. And in 24 hours, I'm gonna call you back. And if you want to continue the conversation after you think about what I'm gonna tell you, answer the phone.

Anthony Giglio [00:53:28]:
If not, you're doing Mike, obviously, and have a great life. And she said, I think you had a terrible relationship with your father. I think that he probably wasn't such a nice guy while he was cracking jokes about everybody. You were probably one of the jokes. And I'm just sitting The, my hair is standing, and I wanna kill her. And I'm thinking like, how dare you? You know, it's it's sort of Mike, what's what's that, that, Roberta Flack, strung my fate with his fingers. Like, she was telling my story without me permitting, you know, giving her permission. And I was like, how are you, how are you figuring that out? And she said, is that something you would be she was, am I tell me, am I wrong or am I right? And I was on the verge of tears.

Anthony Giglio [00:54:12]:
And I said, I could never do that to my father. And she said, we don't, I'm not asking you to crucify him. I'm asking you to think about how we could tell a compelling story. She was, are you friends with The now? I said, yes. And she said, then that's, that's the ending we need. You're still, you know, after all you went through with him, you're still together, but I want to hear about your childhood. And if we could tell that story, tell think about it and I'll I'll call you tomorrow. And I hung up and I just Mike I called my wife.

Anthony Giglio [00:54:42]:
I'm like, oh my Mike. This is insane what just happened. And she was just like, holy shit. She goes, you wrote that screenplay years ago when The Sopranos was on. A friend of mine who knew my childhood said, Larry Smith, who is, he and I were editors at POV Men's Magazine back in the nineties. And his wife is Piper Kerman, who wrote Art is the New Black. So Larry The a storytelling. He he's his his, whole gig is the 6 word memoir project.

Anthony Giglio [00:55:08]:
So he had me, do a 6 word memoir back, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, about, growing up. We called it mezzo soprano. Like, you know, you're half soprano, you're not quite a soprano, but you come from a family that's got this history. And I wrote a screenplay about it and I showed my father and he said he would kill me if it ever came to light. And I said, and he goes, and don't worry. He goes, and then this isn't just until I Mike, by the way. He goes, because you're alive. Right? And when I die, all the kids of the people you're talking about here are still alive.

Anthony Giglio [00:55:43]:
And maybe some of them aren't as sophisticated and involved as you. Somebody might not like you making fun of the way we did with the way we lived our lives back then. And you have to, you, you know, you have to be very careful about who you throw under the rug for throw into the truck for under the train for comedy or for your own fame. And so I put it away. So here we come now back to it. And I tell her about the screenplay, answer the phone, obviously the next day I tell her about it. And she says, send it to me. And she said, how do we do this in a way that, tells just enough, but doesn't make doesn't incriminate anybody but your Moment? Like, you know, nobody none of their friends.

Anthony Giglio [00:56:21]:
Like, will you be able to tell the people that your father that your grandfather was in the mafia and that your grandfather wanted to be? And that your father, as a gift from his father, was a he made it he became a bookie. My grandfather ran the numbers in Old Jersey City's west side. And my father then was given that as a as a gift to keep him happy even though he had to, like, load trucks every night. And my father was so bad at it that The that he went into debt, and my mother had to dig him out. My mother who was a bookkeeper became the chief bookie of the west side of Jersey City. And when we were kids, we we weren't allowed to answer the The. And that became this this joke in my family, but, like, there was only one phone in the house back then in the early seventies and, you know, and we weren't allowed to answer it because it was people placing, you know, placing bets or collecting or whatever. And, that became the the the lynch of the story.

Anthony Giglio [00:57:13]:
The the lynch of the story is, like, here, you know, my grandfather dies, and I don't understand who he was until my mother calls the local papers to read his obituary. And she, she you know, you'll hear it in The mouth if anyone listens to this. You hear that she has to call back and and read a second the same obituary with The second name, which was his his his wise guy nickname, Tony Grimes. And I didn't and and then I I hit my ass. I was like, what is going on? And she was like, not now, but I I learned later. And then the the cast of characters who showed up at his funeral was just out of, you know, a Scorsese film. It was just amazing. And and that just that that that that led to making sense of why my father was always so angry and frustrated and pissed off at the world and how I shocked everybody because my mother, who was such a great influence on me, a civilizing, influence on me, wanted me to be better than all these men in the family who were, you know, either illegitimate or, or bad influences, including my father and how, nobody liked what that looked like.

Anthony Giglio [00:58:29]:
And that became this this tension that that followed me into adulthood The, where everyone my father, that's where my the title comes from my dad who, you know, smoking a cigarette, staring at me at the table one day was Mike, listen here, fancy pants. And then he would, you know, make The, you know, great declaration through a cloud of Mike. But he was always calling me fancy pants. And, you know, and even my cousins, we we fought Mike, nobody liked me. Nobody liked me because I was too I was too smart, too well spoken. You know, I called them out on their stupidity and their ignorance, and everyone hated me. But

Mike Ganino [00:59:03]:
And inaccurately, a bunch of them thought you were gay.

Anthony Giglio [00:59:07]:
Oh, god. Yeah. Right. Because if you speak well, if you say please and thank you, if you care about dressing nice in the morning and being kind to people, helping your mother clean because you feel bad for her The she's exhausted and just going from work and now she's vacuuming at 10 at night. You know, for helping her. I was, what's what's wrong with? What's what's this kid doing? He's helping with helping the women. And I wanted to be a cook, Mike. That was the big thing.

Anthony Giglio [00:59:29]:
I want to be a cook. And my grandmother living upstairs, my mother's mother, was a great cook. Well, she was a terrible cook, but she was a cook. She was an avid cook, even though she wasn't a great cook. But she loved cooking. And I wanted to cook with The, and I got in trouble for it because that's women's work. And I and that's what I say in the story. Like, this is before the Food Network and Emeril and and, you know, and and, yeah, chefs who were celebrated.

Anthony Giglio [00:59:48]:
It was it was women's work, and everyone worried about me.

Mike Ganino [00:59:52]:
There were so many great I I listened to it again, to get ready for this interview. And there's so many great mic drop moments of the speech where you have something and you deliver a line. One of my favorites was when, your mom tells you to talk to your dad about sex ed, and you say, gosh. What am I gonna do? And you ask him, what's a what's a BJ.

Anthony Giglio [01:00:11]:
Right.

Mike Ganino [01:00:12]:
And then the great money the mic drop moment there is that he and he says to you, who told you to give them 1?

Anthony Giglio [01:00:18]:
Who asked you for 1?

Mike Ganino [01:00:19]:
Who asked you for 1?

Anthony Giglio [01:00:20]:
Who asked you for 1? When he saw that I nearly died because I didn't know that there was any other way around this.

Mike Ganino [01:00:25]:
Right.

Anthony Giglio [01:00:26]:
Right? Mike, wait, what? Yeah. That that story is, guys, you know, that that story is, like, legendary in my family because, you know, and he laughs now, but he he really thought, like because, you know, you and your goddamn altar boys and god knows what goes on in The back of that church. And, you know by the way, not not knowing about the sex scandals that we know today, I know none of that back The. Like, no priest ever came after me. But, like, he just thought altar boys are wearing dresses. He didn't go to church. Like, you know, you're my my grandmother was effeminizing me because I was wearing the, the the the altar boy uniform and going to mass every every morning. And it was crazy, crazy stuff.

Anthony Giglio [01:01:05]:
Yeah. So there's a lot of The. There's a lot of a lot of those moments. And the story was super long, and they let it be even though they have, like, a 12 minute limit. And and I probably could have gone on for the 20, but, I was told afterwards that it was one of the best stories they had heard in years. And I went on the road with them with Molly Ringwald, which is pretty awesome that, she and I did the the moth together and, we're not Christmas card friends, although we haven't seen each other since. But, but it it like I said, it's the gift of kids and giving because pe pe people who again, people who have a pretense of what, this this wine expert should sound like, that's the complete other side of it right there.

Mike Ganino [01:01:43]:
Yeah. And it does I mean, I think part of the reason why it was so popular and and why they were Mike, keep going is because it really does deliver all the things that that she asked you to deliver. You laugh. You cry. The the final for me, I think the highest the highest kind of, mic drop moment was The end when you talked about having this conversation with your dad, and and you could hear in your voice and everyone needs to go listen to this. You hear in your voice where you break when your dad finally holds your hand and and cries.

Anthony Giglio [01:02:12]:
And Yeah.

Mike Ganino [01:02:13]:
And I as a as a little boy and, you know, I we all have daddy issues, I think. But as a little boy, a little Italian kid with no basement in California, I mean, like, I listened to it again for probably the 10th time today before we called, and I cried again.

Anthony Giglio [01:02:25]:
Yeah. I'm I'm I I get emotional just thinking about it. It it was a huge catharsis, but then here's here's the to to if you'll permit Mike, I know we're getting close to an hour here. So the crazy thing is I in order to tell that story, I didn't tell a soul in my family it was happening. And not even my I have 2 sisters. 1 who I know wouldn't care, Mike, she wouldn't come to it. My other sister who I'm close to, I didn't tell her and I feel bad about it to this day. My sister, Lisa, my sister Ganino wouldn't care.

Anthony Giglio [01:02:55]:
And I because I didn't want my parents to know. And I worried, like, I I I kinda Mike I made the the decision to let the cat out of the bag. I'm gonna tell this story. I'm putting it out there. I don't know what'll happen from here, but I'm I can't have them in the room when I'm telling it. I'll deal with it later. Right? So because I use the phrase, BJ, in The story, NPR rejects the story. They put it on The had just pro just, partnered with The moth.

Anthony Giglio [01:03:26]:
And the the moth The moth said, I'm sorry, but we're gonna have to shelf this because they can't they don't like your language and there's no way to to beep it. And The we don't rerecord over. It's gotta be the way it was. And it went away for 3 years, just completely dark. And there was no Instagram yet, so it would have only been a Facebook thing. And I asked my friends, please don't. My mother my mother reads it Mike, like it's, you know, she fact checks my whole life. And, only The person slipped something in, and my sister asked about it, of course.

Anthony Giglio [01:03:53]:
And I said, oh, I was it was a speaking gig. I left it at that. And, it went away. And then, this is that was 2,012. 2016, I get an email that says, congratulations. NPR has agreed to finally release the podcast. And unless you say no, Thursday, it will be downloaded by a 1000000 people. And I literally had to run to the bathroom.

Anthony Giglio [01:04:15]:
Mike, I mean, my stomach just went out. And I called my wife, I'm like, now what do I do? And she goes, what do you do? You say yes, and then you go tell your father. And I had to go tell my Moment. I I I had the The, and I showed it to The. And they didn't know what to make of it at first, and then my father was, he was in tears. I I didn't expect that at all. I expected him to throw the computer across the room, and he just said, you know, we don't we you know, I I did the best I could with what I had. And that's it.

Anthony Giglio [01:04:51]:
And then it went out onto the the you know, when NPR put The podcast out, and then the the the, you know, the the floodgates Moment. My parents were getting calls. It was on Facebook. And I I wrote I wrote about how he handled it on on social media The say, like, you know, I couldn't have expected a better reaction when I was terrified to tell him. And and he he, he really he he he really surprised me. He's, you know, he's he's done, you know, Mike, with wisdom of age. Right? But in the moment when, you know, when when he was only, you know, in his thirties and I was a kid, you know, dressing up for church on Sunday with my ultimate uniform. He wanted to kill me.

Anthony Giglio [01:05:29]:
He didn't know what to do with it. He just didn't know what to do with it. And his father was not happy either. So it was just layers and layers of chaos. I just I, like, you know, the ending is about Marco, my son, who I was terrified when we we by the way, we're we're we're, like, just on that that cutting edge of parenthood where you couldn't, you know, gender wasn't automatic, and you had to ask for it. And we decided we didn't want to know. We wanted to go old fashioned. So Sofia was born.

Anthony Giglio [01:05:54]:
We had no idea we're having a girl. Marco was in accident by the technician. She says, oh, boy. We have a tripod in there. And we were Mike, what? What did you just say? And then she goes, oh, I'm so sorry. I and so we knew we were having a boy. And I'll tell you, like, I had a panic attack, like, that afternoon. Like, I don't wanna have a son.

Anthony Giglio [01:06:13]:
I'll be a disaster. You know? Like, I I don't know what I what I I don't wanna repeat what my dad did, but I don't I just don't know what I I don't know what I would do with a son that, you know, given all the crap I've been through, I I don't wanna do that to him. And so my, my hope was that he'd be better than all of us. And he is, he is, he's, he's completely and, utterly evolved to the next level. I don't worry about him at all. He's he's a good kid. He's 15 now, and he's, he's he's just a thoughtful, kind, smart kid who is an amazing athlete. So I Mike to say, like, he's me perfected where, you know, I don't know.

Anthony Giglio [01:06:58]:
I'm I'm I I couldn't be happier. I have 2 great kids.

Mike Ganino [01:07:02]:
I love it. You said in The you said in the, in your speech that he had your dad's arm, your kitchen skill your, kitchen knife skills, and Poppy's aim with a gun.

Anthony Giglio [01:07:13]:
It's true. It's true. Yeah. Because because my dad went crazy for him and just said, I wish, you know, I wish my father could meet this one, which is still a slap at me. Like, you know, it's always the jab. You gotta get the jab in. But he because Marco Marco was, like, the the everything. Right? So it's it's pretty it's pretty amazing.

Anthony Giglio [01:07:31]:
People have asked me, by the way, when are you gonna do one about your daughter? And, I thought about it for years. What would I say about Sofia? Like, how would you know, what's the story with her? But there isn't a story. There's no there was never any any stress about her. I mean, I just was so much more comfortable about the idea of having a daughter. I mean, she's very much like my wife. I adore my Mike. I adore my daughter. And and I I have a great, great relationship with her.

Anthony Giglio [01:07:57]:
I I I I'd like to think that, you know, we do have a really good relationship, maybe better than most father daughters, or although it's supposed to be a classic thing. Like, they're supposed to hate their mothers when they're her The. She's 16. But, she she does. She comes to me for a lot. She I think she she leans on me a lot as much as I'd Mike. More than I'd like. I I'm I'm delighted with how much she she shares with me and leans with me.

Anthony Giglio [01:08:19]:
So, like, I I never worried about her.

Mike Ganino [01:08:22]:
And that, my friends, is Anthony Giglio. You can check him out at anthonygiglio.com and also find him on Instagram at anthonygiglio. He is a blast and just a great person as you can hear from this episode. And we covered it all. We talked about business. We talked about continuing to uplevel and come into the next thing and say yes to interesting opportunities when they're in front of you. We talked about adding entertainment and the pizzazz to your public speaking as he does so well at his events. And, of course, we talked about The Method and the power of storytelling to shape our experiences and shape our relationships, and, it's a great one.

Mike Ganino [01:09:04]:
You can check out links to his Method performance as well as links to his website and side gigs, super salt, and all the things he is doing over on the show notes page for this episode at mike Ganino. Everything's over there for you. Thanks for listening.

Mike Drop Moment Brand Voice [01:09:21]:
This episode has ended, but your journey doesn't have to. Head on over to mikeganino.com. Access all the resources and links that Mike and his guests shared today, and keep on crafting your own story. That's mikeganino.com. Your audience is waiting. Isn't it time to find your hashtag mic drop moment?